Original content created by community member: Arbalister

See Also: Legendary Items Guide

Echoes of the Dead Legendary Item Changes

Introduction

The information below is supplied by Scirocco.  After that is a guide by Snowlock, with some screenshots. Below that is Haliborn's research on the Relics that are available as of 22 Feb. 2011.  And at the bottom is Darkfoxmrd's take on some possible builds for different play styles.  All edited to the Lorebook by Arbalister. All the real work was done by Scirocco, Haliborn, Snowlock and Darkfoxmrd.

LI Revamp Summary V1.1

A summary of known information, updated as of this last patch (3/7/11). I will edit this first post with updated factual information as it becomes known.

GENERAL

I started out with all of my relics removed from your LIs and placed into your relic pool (including your crafted relics). You still have T7-T9s, they arere just relabeled and put in T6, as noted below. Also note that the other older relics are kept in their tiers, but you cannot make them anymore. There's a new set of 10 relics each tier, and although two relics in a tier may share a name, the new one will have different stats than the older ones. It doesn't appear we will be able to make any of the older relics, but you can keep the ones you have, if you want.

You default to equipping 6 LIs at a time. However, you can buy up to two additional LI slots for a max of 8 from the Store.

LEGACIES

All LIs will ID with 3 legacies (Pool A). This means every LI, including the new first agers, will max out with 6 legacies. You still have a small chance of getting a Pool A offered on reforges.

LEGACY REPLACEMENT SCROLLS

You can decon any LI at 30+ and take a legacy of your choice off of it in the form of a legacy replacement scroll. This is in addition to the relics, IXP runes and other goodies that a decon of that same level will generate. As of this last build, legacy replacement scrolls are BOA.

All replacement legs start at Tier 2. And for purposes of tier points, etc., it is treated as if it were added at a reforge on the target LI. Age isn't relevant: a third age LI can produce a scroll you can use on your first age LI.

There are some limitations on use of a replacement scroll:

1. No mixing of classes.

2. No mixing of LI types (i.e., Weapon LIs vs. Class LIs).

3. Limited mixing of "pool" types.
- Pool A legacies can be replaced by Pool A, Pool B and stat legacies (but once you've "downgraded", there's no going back to Pool A)
- Pool B legacies can be replaced by Pool B and stat legacies
- Stat legacies can be replaced by Pool B and stat legacies
(Pool A are referred to as "Major" legacies and Pool B are "Minor")

4. Limited level overlapping
- Scroll from 51-59 source LI can be used on a 51-60 target LI.
- Scroll from a 60-65 source LI can be used on a 51-65 target LI
- Scroll from a 65 source LI can be used on an up to a 70 target LI (i.e., expansion LIs)

RELICS

The number of relic tiers has been reduced to 6, although there are 3 additional levels of transmuted relics. Old T7, T8 and T9 relics have been relabeled as T6, and currently are lumped all together in that tier. You have all your old T7-T9 relics, and apparently will be able to keep them, even though they cannot be made under the new system.

Relics stay slotted in your LI through a reforge. On a decon, the slotted relics are all lost (although you get your standard lower tier relics as with any decon). The only known way to keep those relics is to remove them prior to decon with a Scroll of Removal from the Store (see below).

The number of relics to combine per tier has decreased starting with T2, but the cost per combine has gone up. Note that you can use shards instead of silver to pay for the combines by selecting the button at the bottom left of the window. Each shard is equivalent to 2 silver.

REFINING RELICS

The Relic Master now allows you to destroy relics to make "shards", which can be used for transmutation, or for relic combination costs. The number of relics you get depends on the tier of the relic. For T6, the old T7, T8 and T9 relics each generate more shards.

T1 - 1
T2 - 2
T3 - 9
T4 - 32
T5 - 79
T6 - 192 (base); 464 (old T7); 1119 (old T8); 2696 (old T9)

T1 Crafted - 32 Relic Shards
T2 Crafted - 79
T3 Crafted - 464

Lastly, you can decon the new PvMP runics. On the Refine tab, they're actually called "Skill" relics:

Skill - 366 Relic Shards

MELDING

The Melding tab allows you to make a wide variety of specific relics and other items (including stat scrolls and LIs).

a. General Relics.

You can make one of 10 specific relics in each tier. These are the same relics that you can generate using combines under the new system (note that all relics have been modified, and that even though a new may share the same name with an old relic, the stats will be different). This generally requires a number of shards and one random relic of that tier. For example, creating a T6 Adamant Gem of the Precise Eye requires 96 shards and 1 T6 relic. The number of shards required is constant for that tier:

T1 - 1
T2 - 2
T3 - 4
T4 -16
T5 - 39
T6 -96

b. Unique Relics (requires level 55 item)

There are 9 unique relics, each of which requires 32 shards and 3 specific T2 relics. You have a "random unique relic" option, which requires 32 shards and 2 random T2 relics.

c. Singular Relics (requires level 60 item - note, the window is bugged, and says Level 55 in the list)

There are 9 singular relics, each of which requires 192 shards and 3 specific T4 relics. You have a "random singular relic" option, which requires 192 shards and 2 random T4 relics.

d. Extraordinary Relics (requires level 65 item)

There are 9 extraordinary relics, each of which requires 696 shards and 3 specific T6 relics. You have a "random extraordinary relic" option, which requires 696 shards and 2 random T6 relics.

e. Legendary Support

You can use shards to "buy" scrolls of delving, renewal, and empowerment (and their lesser versions).

Scroll of Lesser Delving - 2022
Scroll of Delving - 5392
Scroll of Lesser Renewal - 1119
Scroll of Renewal - 2696
Scroll of Lesser Empowerment - 3370
Scroll of Empowerment - 6495

f. Stat Legacies

You can "buy" stat legacies in lesser and normal versions for all 5 stats. Lesser versions have a max target level of 60, and provide a Tier 2 stat legacy on use. Normal version has a max target level of 65, and provide a Tier 4 stat legacy on use.

Lesser - 1678 shards
Normal - 3356 shards

g. Unidentified Items

This is a class-specific section that provides you the ability to use shards to buy Third Age Weapon and Class LIs. There are three levels, based on required use levels of 55, 60 and 65. The cost in shards is the same for weapons and class LIs.

Min level 55 - 158 shards
Min level 60 - 384
Min level 65 - 6495

***

STORE

The Store now has a variety of LI related items. Price in TP.

Scroll of Removal (removes all relics from the LI) - 195
Legacy Tier Upgrade - 295
Legacy Level Cap Increase - 195
Legacy Point Reset - 95
Legacy Replacement Scroll (any of the 5 stats at Tier 4) - 195

Legendary Slot Unlock (up to 2 additional) - 295 each

Fused Bronze Relic (T1) - 55
Fused Copper Relic (T2) - 125
Fused Iron Relic (T3) - 165
Fused Early Relic (T4) - 275

There also are a variety of LI "title" scrolls for both types of LIs.

Snowlock's Guide to the New Relic System - Beta

For me, lost in all the new stuff coming with the EoD update is the changes to the Relic Forging system. I figured I'd write this guide to try and organize my thoughts around the system and maybe help explain it to others that might be as confused as I was. I created it for my Kin, but figured I'd share it here as well.

This guide is based off information in Bullroarer, so is subjet to change. But even if a few things change, the basic system will probably remain and keep the guide pertinant.

• Note: This section has not been updated for the 7 March 2011 Bullroarer patch.

The First Thing to Know.

The first thing to know is that there's now six tiers of relics as opposed to the nine that are on live. Within each tier there will be ten options: Four settings, three gems and three runes each. It's going to take 5 T1's to forge a T2. Four T2's to forge a T3. Four T3's for a T4. Three T4's for a T5. Thee T5's for a T6. And to recombine T6's its three again. So, fewer tiers to get to the top, and starting at T2, fewer relics to combine to get to the next tier.

All of the relics appear to have been redone. So while you'll keep your existing relics, including the ones not slotted, you can't make more of the same. So if you've got that Subtle Rune of the Caves with the 200 morale and crit defence, you may want to hang onto it.

Btw, when you decon you lose your relics.. if you don't have Turbine Points. Yep, Lotro store to the rescue! Prior to your decon, go to the store and for 175 points, buy a Scroll of Removal and you'll keep them.

Okay, onto the big show.

First, the new Relic Forging panel:

As you can see, there are now four tabs: Relic Forging, Deconstruct, Transmutation and Refine.

The Relic Forging and Decon tabs looks different, but the mechanics are all the same.

Now..

Basically what we can do by using the Trans and Refine tabs is replace existing relics we've gained randomly (from decons, combining lower tiered relics or relic chests) with specific ones we want! The terminology players seem to be using is "creating" relics. But that's not really accurate. We're actually replacing. In order to "create" a T6 relic, we already have to have one, so it's really replacing.

Here's a screenshot of the new relics at 6 tier (the lower tiers seem to be incrementally inferior to the top tier. As opposed to at times completely different stats per tier as it is on the current Live system).

Tier 6 Relics.

So how do we "create" one?

Replacing a new relic with an existing one requires a new ingredient called a Relic Shard. We obtain Relic Shards by destroying existing relics on the Refine tab.

Creating new relics are done on the Transmutation tab with the relics we gain from Refining. The higher the tier of the relic we want to create, the more Relic Shards we need.

The higher tier of the relic we destroy, the more relic shards we gain:

T1 - 1 Relic Shard
T2 - 2
T3 - 9
T4 - 32
T5 - 79

Now, T6's are broken down into four categories because we're carrying over our old relics from prior to the update.

There are actual T6's, plus those old 7's, 8's, and 9's that are called T6's now.

Actual T6 - 192 Relic Shards
T6 (T7) - 464
T6 (T8) - 1119
T6 (T9) - 2696

You can also destroy crafted relics for shards (updated by Hurin 1/31:

T1 Crafted - 64 Relic Shards
T2 Crafted - 79 (probably not accurate as of 1/31/2012)
T3 Crafted - 384

Lastly, you can decon the new PvMP runics. On the Refine tab, they're actually callled "Skill" relics:

Skill - 366 Relic Shards

So, you've gotten yourself a pile of Relic Shards and you're ready to "create" some.

Relics you can create are broken into two categories. There's the normal tiered ones and there are "special" ones that are further broken down into three sub-categories.

To create a normal one,

go to the Transmutation tab and as long as you have an existing relic of that tier, plus the required shards, go ahead and make it:

Those three sub-categories for the "special" relics are Unique, Singular and Extraordinary. Unique correspond to a Lvl 55 LI (requiring T2 relics). Singular is for Lvl 60 LI's (requiring T4 relics). And Extraordinary are for 65 LI's (requiring T6 relics).

Here's the Extraordinary Relics:

To create them,

you not only need Shards, but also specific relics to add to the combination.

If you lack those relics for the recipe, you can create them as well.

You can also spend Relic Shards on other LI stuff:

Scroll of Empowerment: 6,495 Shards
Scroll of the Delving: 5,392 Shards
Stat Legacy Scrolls: 3,356 Shards
Third Age Lvl 65 LI's for your class: 6,495 Shards

And also lesser versions of the above for lower level stuff.

So there you go.

In summary:

- If you're in love with your old relics, keep them, you wont be able to replace them.
- Buy Scrolls of Removal from the store before Decon to keep your existing relics
- Refine relics to gain shards
- Use shards and existing relics to create new relics of your choice.

Hope this is helpful!

Haliborn's List of Update 2 Relics

The New Relics by Tier

See also relics

Tier 1

Tier 2

Tier 3

Tier 4

Tier 5

Tier 6

Unique(Level 55)

Requires 32 Shards and 3 Tier 2 Relics to Make

Singular(Level 60)

Requires 192 Shards and 3 Tier 4 Relics to Make

Extraordinary(Level 65)

Requires 696 Shards and 3 Tier 6 Relics to Make

Requires 1392 Shards and 4 Tier 6 Relics to Make

LOTRO Store Relics (550 TP)

Possible builds with the new relic system - by Darkfoxmrd.

After looking through the new relics today, my head hurt. There are a LOT of possible combinations here, and more than 1 is viable for any given class depending on their play-style. I decided to put together a basic list of example builds which players may use to fulfill given roles in Lotro.

• NOTE: Since 3 March 2011 some of the Relic stats have changed.  In cases where relics listed below do not match the ones listed by Haliborn, above, assume that Haliborn's information is more current.

Power conservation, off-tank build:

Extraordinary Setting of Beginnings(650 Melee Defense, 114 icpr, 20 Vitality)
Extraordinary Gem of Hope(260 Crit Defense, 520 Evade, 20 Might)
Subtle Rune of the Sun(114 icpr, 520 Evade)

Net: 650 Melee Defense, 228 ICPR, 1040 Evade, 260 Crit Defense, 20 might, 20 vitality

Melee offensive build:

Extraordinary Setting of Endings(+7.5% Devastate Magnitude, 520 Melee, Ranged, Tac Crit, 114 icmr)
Adamant Gem of the Crags(20 Vitality, 520 Melee Crit)
Extraordinary Rune of Power(650 Ranged Defense, 520 Melee, Ranged, Tac Offence, 20 Fate)

Net: 7.5 Devastate Mag., 1040 Melee crit, 640 melee offense, 114 ICMR, 20 Vit, 20 Fate, 650 Ranged Defense

Mitigations Build:

Extraordinary Setting of Beginnings(650 Melee Defense, 114 icpr, 20 Vitality)
Extraordinary Gem of Faith(+10% Partial Block, Parry Mitigation, 520 Block, 200 Morale)
Extraordinary Rune of Courage(+10% Partial Evade, Parry Mitigation, 20 Agility, 520 Parry)

Net: 650 Melee Defense, +10% Partial Block Mit, +20% Partial Parry mit, + 10% Partial Evade Mit.
20 Vit, 20 Agi, 520 Block, 520 Parry, 114 ICMR

Main Tank Build - Alt:

(sacrifices some mits for incoming healing from previous build)

Extraordinary Setting of Stability(-5% Item Wear Chance, 260 Block, Parry, Evade, 1300 Incoming Healing)
Extraordinary Gem of Faith(+10% Partial Block, Parry Mitigation, 520 Block, 200 Morale)
Subtle Rune of the Fortress(1040 Incoming Healing, 520 Block)

Net: 1300 Block, 2340 Incoming Healing, 200 morale, +10% Partial Block mit, +10% Partial Parry Mit. -5% Item wear

Main Healer Build:

Gold Setting of Grace(200 Power, 780 Outgoing Healing)
Extraordinary Gem of Charity(650 Tac Defense, 780 Outgoing Healing, 200 Power)
Subtle Rune of the Sun(114 icpr, 520 Evade)

Net: 400 Power, 1560 Outgoing healing, 650 tact defense, 114 ICPR, 520 Evade

Tactical Offense Build:

Gold Setting of Clear Thought(20 Will, 780 Tac Offence)
Adamant Gem of Lore(20 Fate, 520 Tac Crit)
Extraordinary Rune of Power(650 Ranged Defense, 520 Melee, Ranged, Tac Offence, 20 Fate)

Net: 20 will, 40 fate, 1300 tact offense, 520 tact crit, 650 ranged defense

Ranged Offense Build:

Gold Setting of Precision(200 Morale, 780 Ranged Offence)
Adamant Gem of the Precise Eye(20 Agility, 520 Ranged Crit)
Extraordinary Rune of Power(650 Ranged Defense, 520 Melee, Ranged, Tac Offence, 20 Fate)

Net: 200 Morale, 20 Agility, 520 Ranged Crit, 1300 Ranged Offense, 20 Fate, 650 Ranged Defense

Of course, there are many, many other combinations, and these builds can be tweaked to sacrifice some of one thing for more of another all over the place. All in all, I think it's safe to say that we can say goodbye to "Cookie Cutter" relic builds for specific classes.

Should I combine on Live or wait for Update? (Test Results) - By Scirocco

There've been several calculations of relic combines, or some actual test results on BR compared to a calculation on Live, to try to answer this question.

I decided to do a fresh run starting with 800 T1 relics on Live and compare the same run to BR. I deconned 100 FBR on both Live and BR, same character, same vendors....Live gave me 811 T1 on decon, BR gave me 795. I corrected to 800 for each, and started combining.

On Live, I had an advantage with criticals. As has been documented elsewhere, critical combines have been soundly nerfed on BR. On Live, crits will result in at least 3 relics, 2 to 4 of the next level, and often 3 to 4 of the next level beyond that. Once, I even got 4 of the next level beyond that (i.e., a T1 crit combine gave me 4 T4 and 2T2). On BR, crits only resulted in 1 or 2 of the next level (which a normal combine would), and also gave the Bronze Setting of Deflection, which I assumed would be shards (as discussed elsewhere).

Also, it should be noted that normal combines on BR now no longer give "kickbacks" (that is, relics of the same level).

Both runs terminated with T6 relics. Here are the results and total combine costs:

Live: 3 T6, 519 silver
BR: 2 T6, 1.9 gold

I should note that my two T5 combines gave 1 T6 each. Of course, one could have given me 2 T6, with a little luck. However, I also was a little unlucky on Live, in that I had only one crit at the T3 level, and no crits on T4 or T5 combines.

My conclusion:

Go ahead and do your combines now. You'll end up with approximately the same number of T6s either way, but Live will be much cheaper.

You also may prefer the Live T6 relics, which can have 3 effects on them (as opposed to the new T6 relics, which have only 2 effects).

Further, if you repeat my above run a couple of times, you may be able to get some T7s and T8s, which may be much more valuable to you (depending on your class). At a minimum, you can convert unwanted T7s and T8s to create a good initial pool of shards to work with on the first day.

How did Critical Results affect the numbers?

Tier 1: 16 crits out of 165 combines
Tier 2: 8 crits out of 54 combines
Tier 3: 1 crit out of 21 combines
no crits for T4 or T5

On a previous test last week, I got a crit rate of a little over 12%. So the Dev-reported crit rate of 10% appears fairly accurate.

The problem with assuming a crit rate of 10%, though, is that the crit results can vary widely. At a minimum, you can assume that a crit will give you at least 3 of the next tier, or 2 of the next tier plus some more of the tier (or tiers) beyond that. In the latter case, it was usually 3 to 4 of the tier+2 (except once case where I got 4 from two tiers up, i.e., tier+3).

Further Comments on the Results - Arbalister.

Just wanted to note that Scirocco's results in that post are not *wrong* - statistically it may be better to do combines up to 6 now...and if you have a good run, beyond that as well. But if you have a bad run...maybe not.

My take is that it compares the worst possible results in the new system, with good (maybe not 'best possible') results on Live.

Mathematically, removing crits from the mix,

800 T1s / 5 = 160 T2
160 T2s / 5 = 32 T3
32 T3s / 5 = 6 T4
6 T4s / 5 = 1 T5...

In other words, without crits, you can't get to T6 from 800 LIs. You also *don't* need 5x800 ... 4000 T1s. Mathematically, you need 3129. And at that point, the cost in gold becomes much the same.

So, I suppose, more properly, one could state that in the currently live system, you need some number of T1's between 800 (if you're lucky on crits) to 3129 (if the RNG hates you) and cash between 519 silver and 2 gold.

This illustrates the randomness of the system that people have complained about since day 1.

On the new system, it takes 720. Worst case scenario. And the cost is also worst case - even more so because the new system lets you pay in shards as opposed to silver.

Also, again, we're not sure what the state of criticals is on BR. There've been some pretty anomalous results there...people getting huge numbers of T1s in a crit, people getting next level relics...etc...and the dev diary sounds like you should be getting shards rather then relics...

UPDATE: 7 March BR patch - Crits on the current build no longer reward you with relics at all.  You get shards.  This is more in line with the information in the Dev Diary about relics.  So there's no random element to how many relics you need to combine to get to T6 - it's no more then 720.  However, the cost in silver/gold will be mitigated by the shards you get as crit rewards.

--Arbalister 17:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)