Talk:Lorebook home
From LOTRO Lorebook
[edit] Official Information
Why is the "official information" so useless and vague? At least put it at the bottom of the page. --Porkins arrgo 10:45, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
- Consider it just a placeholder. Most of it will be expanded over time (see Landmark:Weathertop, for example). As official information, I imagine that Turbine does not want it buried under fan-submitted information. In time, it will be more useful, but already it at least allows more 'spoiler-like' information to be buried at the bottom of the page. --AtteSmythe 23:32, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
- Some of it is just plain wrong. For example the Enmity of Goblins racial trait has a line that says "Min Level: 4". What does that mean? You can't do the deed until level 13. As long as the information will be fix and added to, I can see the benefit, thank you. --Porkins arrgo 10:45, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
- I don't know exactly what those levels mean - perhaps it'd be best to collect a bunch of them and post them in the Lorebook Bug Reports forum? I actually have a feeling that the 'level' of a deed does not determine when you get it, but the amount of XP you get from completing it. --AtteSmythe 11:21, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
- We need to be able to edit the "Official Information", so that we can wikify it -- for instance, when it says to visit Flint Oakhewer, we need to be able to make that text say Flint Oakhewer. On another note, we really need to get rid of all the NPC: Quest: Blah: Etc: in front of stuff, so that we don't have to double wiki every link, like the [[NPC:Flint Oakhewer|Flint Oakhewer]] example I just gave. The whole point of a wiki is to make linking and editing simple, easily understood and seemlessly fitting into the text around it. As it now stands, not only can we not edit the normal text, but we have to add the link in as a seperate link under the text, outside its context and it's a pain in the rear to have to type it double in order to link it. The official information is great, don't get me wrong, but if this is going to be a great wiki, we really need to be able to properly wikify it. In other words, we need to be able to edit it. Banaticus 21:04, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
- FWIW, you can just put the pipe in without the second run of the text, and it'll still work (e.g. [[NPC:Flint Oakhewer|]]). It would be nice if the official text were on its own set of pages, or something, but I highly doubt we'll ever be given the ability to edit it. It's 'official' for a reason - Turbine wants to have information on these pages that users can know came directly from the source. We used to be able to at least hide it while browsing, especially useful on long sections, but they took that away, too. IMO, the best thing we can do is to wikify the things that should be linked in the official text while in the process of adding new info: Flint Oakhewer is in Bree, near the West Gate, working metal under a shade tree. --AtteSmythe 15:09, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
- Thanks for letting me know about leaving the double pipe off. I think Turbine really needs to take a page from NCSoft's book and take a good long look at the amazing official Guild Wars wiki -- seriously, this official LotRO wiki could be so much better, but it's difficult to work with my hands tied behind my back (figuratively speaking), you know? Text should be wikied *in context* -- not in some "links to the other pages that you likely wanted to know more about back when you were reading the previous section but weren't able to find any links to" section underneath the undeditable "main content". Maybe Turbine is trying to make it more difficult for the other LotRO wiki to possibly borrow "official content", but a person can just copy/paste from the screen, you know? It just makes it so difficult to make this Lorebook into a good wiki, instead of merely a series of articles about things. Banaticus 16:38, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
- IMO, their motivation is solely "The information in this block is provided by Turbine" - those leery of wikis can trust that information. I mean, I agree with you completely (the last game wiki I worked on extensively was that of Puzzle Pirates, and I think the system there worked well, too. Frankly, better than the Lorebook, IMO, but they serve different purposes. The Lorebook, as is, appears to me to be an official 'online manual' that allows users to comment and add additional info - not revise. It's not strictly a wiki - it's like an official guide with a wiki tacked on. Heck, we can't even redirect or move, which means the entire organisation of pages is out of our hands, too. That said, I've alternated between the only two solutions I see: Not editing, or editing in specifically that information that Turbine cannot or will not pull from the database. (e.g. Duillond or Shattered Pitcher) --AtteSmythe 17:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
- Thanks for letting me know about leaving the double pipe off. I think Turbine really needs to take a page from NCSoft's book and take a good long look at the amazing official Guild Wars wiki -- seriously, this official LotRO wiki could be so much better, but it's difficult to work with my hands tied behind my back (figuratively speaking), you know? Text should be wikied *in context* -- not in some "links to the other pages that you likely wanted to know more about back when you were reading the previous section but weren't able to find any links to" section underneath the undeditable "main content". Maybe Turbine is trying to make it more difficult for the other LotRO wiki to possibly borrow "official content", but a person can just copy/paste from the screen, you know? It just makes it so difficult to make this Lorebook into a good wiki, instead of merely a series of articles about things. Banaticus 16:38, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
- FWIW, you can just put the pipe in without the second run of the text, and it'll still work (e.g. [[NPC:Flint Oakhewer|]]). It would be nice if the official text were on its own set of pages, or something, but I highly doubt we'll ever be given the ability to edit it. It's 'official' for a reason - Turbine wants to have information on these pages that users can know came directly from the source. We used to be able to at least hide it while browsing, especially useful on long sections, but they took that away, too. IMO, the best thing we can do is to wikify the things that should be linked in the official text while in the process of adding new info: Flint Oakhewer is in Bree, near the West Gate, working metal under a shade tree. --AtteSmythe 15:09, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
- We need to be able to edit the "Official Information", so that we can wikify it -- for instance, when it says to visit Flint Oakhewer, we need to be able to make that text say Flint Oakhewer. On another note, we really need to get rid of all the NPC: Quest: Blah: Etc: in front of stuff, so that we don't have to double wiki every link, like the [[NPC:Flint Oakhewer|Flint Oakhewer]] example I just gave. The whole point of a wiki is to make linking and editing simple, easily understood and seemlessly fitting into the text around it. As it now stands, not only can we not edit the normal text, but we have to add the link in as a seperate link under the text, outside its context and it's a pain in the rear to have to type it double in order to link it. The official information is great, don't get me wrong, but if this is going to be a great wiki, we really need to be able to properly wikify it. In other words, we need to be able to edit it. Banaticus 21:04, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
- Take a look at the last 500 changes over the last month at the Recent Changes page. Turn off all the minor edits. Now, how has this wiki been changed/improved over the last month? Pretty much nothing has been changed except for user pages and kinship pages and other user created fluff -- nothing like an encylopedia of knowledge or a Lorebook. Now go to, say, lotro-wiki.com and take a look at what's changed over the last month there. Wow, what a difference. All of that "official" stuff that Turbine has added, well, it's nice that Turbine has seeded this wiki with that, but the other main LotRO wiki *already had it*. In fact, I remember when this Lorebook was first released and the main arguement against it was, "It's pretty much empty and the other main LotRO site has the quest information already, why would we want to type it all in again?" Seriously, it's great that Turbine responded by seeding this wiki with that text so that we don't have to type it all in again. But they locked it up and this wiki has been (in my opinion) dying on the vine ever since. Sure, this Lorebook is growing. But, according to the official statistics page for this wiki, only around 1.4% (432) of it is good content pages and the rest are user pages, kinship pages, etc., just fluff. According to the same page for the other main LotRO wiki, around 45% (7,484) of it is good content pages. Take a look at the Most Linked Pages. The NPC who's been involved in the most quests should, in my opinion, be near the top of that list because he should be linked (in context) from each individual page that his name appears in -- nmt the Casual Kinship category, that should be down near the bottom of the page, even with 134 links. Turbine can lock content up all they want -- but that's neither in keeping with the spirit of a wiki nor does it readily lend itself to building this site into an easily referenced and hyperlinked compendium of knowledge. I've said my peace and I won't be argueing my point any further. But, in my opinion, this site is dying on the vine. Banaticus 06:04, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
[edit] External Links
Other Good sights for finding info.
LOTRO.tip.it For interactive searchable Maps.
LOTRO.Allakhazam.comA comprehensive LOTRO Resource
lotro.mmodb.comFor quests, gear and more!
Middle Earth HeadQuarters ;loc data for pretty much every NPC, Quest Object, etc., in the game.
